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రొట్టెల ఇల్లు | House of Bread | בית לחם Forum Index
రొట్టెల ఇల్లు | House of Bread | בית לחם Forum Index What Christians believe (Theology) Calvin's "Election" debunked
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Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:31 pm
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Caleb
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Calvin's "Election" debunked

The Elect before the foundation of heaven and earth, spoken of in scripture are those who are hypothetically saved in God's plan for mankind. They are corporately predestined "in Him" (Eph1:4). You can think of a bus to heaven with a pilot called Jesus, planned and put in order "before the foundation of the world." In the fullness of time, you and i boarded the bus at every stop, upon being born-again. But as for election [to holy office], when one is "entirely sanctified" (1 Thessalonian 5:23), he becomes an elect or chosen, INDIVIDUALLY. For, many are called but few are chosen [from the bunch of "mangoes"]. God would have by then searched him (Psalms 139:23-24) and then foreknown him to predestine him individually (Romans 8:29). These are also those who "BECOME the righteousness of Christ IN HIM" (2Cor5:21).


Some common verses apparently in support of Calvin's concept of Election (sic), explained:


Quote:

1 Peter 1:1-2 NASB "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

It will all make sense when we see that not all who are called were chosen. They were chosen after being tried and tested. God would then know their heart. He would know that within the alloted 70 years (Psalm 90:10) He could, by His unfailing and sanctifying work of His Spirit/love--which no doubt can sometimes become weak through the flesh (Romans 8:3)--save them. They would surely persevere till the end only from then on.

Quote:
2 Timothy 1:8-11 NASB Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher.

Notice that it is a "holy calling." Therefore Paul was speaking of his vocation, rather than those who were called out of the world in order to be chosen of God for works and salvation.

Quote:

John 3:3-8 NIV In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!" Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

We need to "Be Born Again!" When the wind (Holy Spirit/Word/Love) comes to you because you found favor in His sight (i.e. you "pleased" Him), you should respond appropriately, namely: "Be Born Again." We should not harden our hearts; we should yield to His saving grace by mustering faith.

Quote:

Mark 13:20 "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

Obviously, the elect here are those whom he chose after entire sanctification.

Quote:

Ephesians 1:4-5 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love (5) He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

"In Him" is the qualifier, which speaks of the aforementioned corporate predestination of the hypothetical remnant.

Quote:

Romans 9:11-13 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, (12) it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER." (13) Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."

Yes the older will serve the younger, but being in service does not mean that one is destined to hell. God also blessed Esau for serving his younger brother. That blessing could have come to him only if he served with humility--an attribute, which makes one the greatest in the kingdom of God (Matthew 18:1-4).

Quote:

Romans 9:16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

This is spoken of in the context of self-righteousness, which is a no-no. It depends on God's mercy. God is the one who determines who deserves mercy and who does not. In other words, God is not arbitrary in the way he dispenses mercy.

Quote:

1 Corinthians 1:27-29 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, (28) and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, (29) so that no man may boast before God.

God has chosen the weak things for their inherent humility. They become good candidates for His power to work in them. For in weakness His strength is magnified.

Quote:

2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

There again the phrase "in Christ Jesus," speaking of corporate predestination.

Quote:

Exodus 33:19 And He said, "I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion."

As i said earlier, when God is showing compassion He is not arbitrary. His thoughts are not our thoughts. We do not understand His decisions but He is a just God rewarding each one according to their deeds.

Quote:

Deuteronomy 7:6-7 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. (7) "The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples,

God did choose the nation of Israel out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth not because of their strength but because of their weakness, being fewest of all people. This, only to demonstrate His strength.

Quote:

Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

The word for 'appointed' in Greek is 'tasso,' which really means to put in order. This means the Gospel, which gives eternal life, was preached to them. "As many as had been put in order unto eternal life by the preaching of the Gospel, believed."

Quote:

1 Peter 2:8 and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.

Those who stumble are those who become conceited and complacent and therefore some are hypothetically appointed for doom. God wants all to be saved none to stumble. We must "strive through the narrow gate" for only a few get through.

Quote:

Romans 8:28-29 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. (29) For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

God doesn't foreknow everyone; only those who lend their hearts to His searching eyes like King David of old. After tests, trials and tribulations God will know each person for who he is. Then He predestines these because He knows how they will react to temptations. And He will not tempt more than what we can bear (1 Corinthians 10:13).

It must be noted here that not all who are called will be chosen. And not all who are chosen will be faithful. But only those who are called, from among whom some will be chosen, and from among whom some will remain faithful, will be the Bride of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rev 17:14).
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2006-2015 Caleb S. Motupalli

~Most of our problems will be solved if only we yield our freewill to the Lord's will.~

Last edited by Caleb on Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:04 am; edited 3 times in total
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Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:02 pm
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The Broken Horse

Bro. Priyanath gave this great illustration of the horse that was broken and tamed. God then predestines us when we surrender to Him our everything. He now controls us in His infinite wisdom. There is no way now that we are going to get lost even though we walk blind-folded like the horse, for He sees where we need to go and He leads us step by step. A freewill, totally yielded to God's will!
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Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:53 am
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"My Sheep" (Jn10:26) -- supposedly the Elect?

Jn10:26-29 may be paraphrased as:

"You do not believe because you are not of My sheep--[the humble kind, which do receive grace (James4:6, 1Peter5:5)]. [I have faith in] My sheep, [who are humble and therefore teachable, they] hear My voice, and I know them [for they, like David of old, have rented their hearts to my searching eyes], and they follow Me [because they love Me, thereby I know them (1Cor8:3)]; and I give eternal life to them, [having known them, I predestine them to heaven (Rom8:29) for, i will strive with them with 'bonds of love' (Hos11:4) till the end], and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father (agape), who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand [for, agape never fails (1Cor13:8)]. [Neither Me nor the Father will separate from them but sin separates them from us.]"
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