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Pilgrim wrote:

Caleb,

Since you reject the doctrine of justification by faith alone, do you proclaim and believe that sinners are justified by faith and personal good works? Mormons, Catholics, JWs, Charles Finney, Church of Christ, etc all reject justification by faith alone. I would like to read a post from those whose reject justification by faith alone on how sinners like us are justified (make right) before a perfectly holy God?

Actually the answer is simple. It only takes a listening ear and a teachable heart.

Notice, Jesus' final words to the woman caught in adultery: "Go and sin no more!" (Jn8:11)

No doubt, Jesus did say, the will/work that the Father desires is that "you believe in the One whom He sent" (Jn6:40; 6:29). Ok. We do believe the Good News and we have also washed our sins away in the Waters of Baptism. After that what? Has God died and stopped speaking? Absolutely not! He still speaks and WE CONTINUE TO BELIEVE IN HIM. We "continue in the faith" (Col1:23). We do His promptings! Bro. Ray Comfort is spot on with what he calls, "Lordship Salvation." What's more, we all need to become "True Muslims," in the true sense of the term! But Satan does this sort of thing (uses evil Jihad to convert everyone to Muslim), to smear our efforts, black.

At the outset, one must remember that we are not translated to heaven after we are born again --justified or treated just as if we have never sinned, by grace through faith, which is a boastless work of belief (John 6:29) in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. "By one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy" (Hebrews 10:14). That is, we remain in this "tent" during a period of grace for the purpose of qualifying for heaven having got the title to it. But we need to "continue in faith" (Colossians 1:21-23). The faith that enabled us to believe at the time of being born again should manifest/show during the said grace period with works of love until we are entirely sanctified. When we commit sins of omission and commission we need to wash as it were our feet. "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you." (John 13:10 NASB). Jesus prepared a pattern for us to walk in it so as to engineer our sanctification step by step. As our feet are being washed we are being forgiven of individual sins unlike in baptism when we were washed as a total sinner. In this manner every time our feet are washed, we are being treated just as if we have never sinned. That is, we are being justified continually until Christ sees His reflection in us. As for who pays for this, it is that part of Christ's body that remains on earth. Just as Water Baptism symbolizes the complete cleansing that one receives when one is presented the Gospel (Good News), Feet washing symbolizes the washing that one receives by the Word of God when it is ministered concerning any specific sin lingering in a person. In Bible phraseology this is the "washing by the water with the Word" (Ephesians 5:26).

That part of Christ's body like Paul (2 Corinthians 4:10-12; Galatians 6:17; Philippians 2:17) will pay for it as long as it is not willful sin for which "no more sacrifice for sins is left but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of fire" (Hebrews 10:26-29). Those who have committed willful sin have got their "garments spotted with the flesh"/world/devil. These need to be, as it were, "snatched out of the fire" like Joshua (Zechariah 3:1-8; Jude 23). Hence the Precursor to the Fire Baptism. Then the "garments" (works) themselves need to be washed, so to speak, "in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14).

We were saved! We are being saved! We will be saved!
_________________
© 2006-2015 Caleb S. Motupalli

~Most of our problems will be solved if only we yield our freewill to the Lord's will.~

Last edited by Caleb on Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:18 pm; edited 14 times in total

Pilgrim wrote:

Quote:

Please explain Romans 4:5 for us.

Romans 4:5:
However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

But to one who, not working [by the Law], trusts (believes fully) in Him Who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness (the standing acceptable to God).

and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned -- to righteousness:

Soothly to him that worketh not, but believeth into him that justifieth a wicked man, his faith is areckoned to rightwiseness, after the purpose of God's grace.

If you're a hard worker and do a good job, you deserve your pay; we don't call your wages a gift. But if you see that the job is too big for you, that it's something only God can do, and you trust him to do it—you could never do it for yourself no matter how hard and long you worked—well, that trusting-him-to-do-it is what gets you set right with God, by God. Sheer gift.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.

I see a ray of hope on the horizon for you pilgrim. Smile

It's easy. The context is before being born-again. We were all wicked to begin with. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." The "work" mentioned in Romans 4:5 does not include the work of belief (John 6:_).

But work/love we must after we are born-again. These are imparted works, not dead works any longer that were but filthy rags! After the fine is paid in the court, you cannot go back to your old ways. You have to be a law abiding citizen from here on. So watch those rules when you drive your car on the highway.

When i say "rules" i mean those which are written in our mind or heart. We just need to "walk" in the Spirit and not by the letter/rules. That would make us legalistic. However, we are judged by the Letter of the Law. For, through the Faith, the Law is established (Romans 3:31).
_________________
© 2006-2015 Caleb S. Motupalli

~Most of our problems will be solved if only we yield our freewill to the Lord's will.~

You might wonder how will all those of OLD will finally end up being justified if only now we in this time are seeing with a clear vision and not in part.

Consider the following verses:

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad" (John 8:56).

"By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God" (Heb 11:8-10).

"And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect" (Heb 11:39-40).

"After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you (including Abraham) in Me, and I (including Abraham) in you" (John 14:19-20 targum Caleb).

"For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ" (1 Corinthians 12:12).

No one can be Justified and become a member in that body without being Just (humble) and having leaned on the finished work of Christ. No one can begin to become Just (righteous) without being Justified through sanctification by grace through faith in Christ. No one can end here on earth, "Justified," without him being Just (righteous--meritorious) himself through entire sanctification (i.e. faithful obedience to the Holy Spirit until he becomes the Chosen/Elect).
_________________
© 2006-2015 Caleb S. Motupalli

~Most of our problems will be solved if only we yield our freewill to the Lord's will.~

Last edited by Caleb on Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:09 pm; edited 2 times in total

Pilgrim wrote:

Quote:

I believe the Bible reveals the works of the law is the basis of our eternal blessings and our complete forgiveness. Perfect works of the law is required for our relationship with our Heavenly Father for eternity. And the death penalty and the pouring out the just wrath of God is the curse of the law that are required by God. There is a blessing for obeying the law perfectly, and a curse for breaking any portion of the law. That is part of Christianity that needs to be understood. Do you agree, why or why not?

I praise the Lord for you and your insight pilgrim!

Your question is: are we legalists then trying to be self righteous all over again? In other words as Apostle Paul puts it in Galatians:

Quote:

"Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"

NOOO!

"For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM. Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM." (Gal 3:10-12 NASB).

So how then do we practice the Law? By faith in the daily counsel of the Spirit of God!

"Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us." (Romans 8:37)
_________________
© 2006-2015 Caleb S. Motupalli

~Most of our problems will be solved if only we yield our freewill to the Lord's will.~

5point0253 wrote:

Quote:

His Righteousness imputed to us through Faith alone in Him.

Your argument gets demolished when you ask yourself the question, "Does God impute or credit to your account the righteousness of having died for your neighbor?"

The question "what is imputed to us" can be answered by answering what is NOT imputed to us.

Yes! Sin is not imputed to us when we are born again. Thats all. We also have the work of faith (belief -- John 6:29) credited as the minimum balance to open the account in heaven, of which we cannot boast.

5point0253 replied:

Quote:

Calib, your intellect and spirituality is far superior to any human being, so could you please bring your thoughts down to where we mere mortals might understand? In short: Huh? Rolling Eyes

I wish you weren't so sarcastic. But anyway i will take your question.

The righteousness of Christ was useful in so far as a full payment for your sins up until the time you were born-again is concerned (Romans 3:25 NASB; 2 Peter 1:9). The righteousness that was credited to your account is that of having exercised faith in Christ only, which is not something you can boast about (Ephesians 2:8 ). It is like having a dollar in your savings account. Though God credits you with the gifts of the Spirit (talents), which you should invest and bring in the sheaves, the work of faith (belief) is all that you have at the time when you are born again.

You see... Jesus' righteousness is Jesus'. It is never given to us. He died for His friends. We did not die for our friends nor will we be counted as having done so. But we are asked to love our neighbors to the extent of dying for them (1 John 3:16).
_________________
© 2006-2015 Caleb S. Motupalli

~Most of our problems will be solved if only we yield our freewill to the Lord's will.~

Last edited by Caleb on Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:17 pm; edited 2 times in total

Imparted righteousness is simply what the Holy Spirit in you through your new conscience tells you to do or not to do.

Now Justification is by Grace plus Imputed Righteousness (Faith) plus Imparted Righteousness (Fruit).

Posted on StudyLightForums on May 23rd 2008, 4:49 am
Subject: Justification by faith alone?

Pilgrim replied:

Quote:

I have to disagree if we are discussing the subject of justification. Our justification is based soley on the imputed righteousness of Christ alone. Do I believe within sanctification that there is an infused/imparted means of grace? My answer is yes. It seems you may see justification and sanctification similar to Rome, correct?

The subjects of the Roman Catholic Church appear to me, pursuing a law of righteousness as if it were by works.

God has designed our salvation (including initial sanctification/justification -- Acts 26:18; and our entire sanctification -- 1 Thessalonians 5:23 ) in such a way that we earn His favor not by being good in and of ourselves, (which would be self-righteousness) but by depending on Him to reveal His will to us and then do that will.

You see, we have to do God's work God's way, otherwise it is no good at all.

A great man of God, Brother Bakht Singh who has been promoted to glory, in whose fellowship I gather, used to say, "The greatest privilege for man is to know God's will and to do it."

We have to do what we know from God to be right and not do what we know from God to be wrong. Only then in the final analysis we will be labeled, "Justified" in God's sight.

Imputed righteousness is the work of belief in Christ's work credited to our account. Imparted righteousness on the other hand is OUR work/righteousness that God credits to our account when we listen to and obey Him in faith.

Imputed righteousness is needed to be born-again into the family of God and for our righteous deeds to have any value at all other than being "filthy rags." Imparted righteousness is needed so that the Gardner/Vine-dresser (God) does not cut us down as He would the fig tree that has no fruit or the vine branches which did not bear fruit. With imparted righteousness we are entirely sanctified.
_________________
© 2006-2015 Caleb S. Motupalli

~Most of our problems will be solved if only we yield our freewill to the Lord's will.~

Last edited by Caleb on Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

The imputed righteousness of Christ was good in so far as it was necessary to wipe away all our sins up until the time we are born again is concerned. The work of belief (John 6:29) in faith that we mustered at that time is only diaper righteousness--it is a righteousness that we cannot boast about.

As for the Imputed righteousness of Christ Himself, it is spent as an atonement for wiping away sins previously committed (Romans 3:25).

We need imparted righteousness from then on to "further clothe" ourselves so that what is mortal will be swallowed up with life (2 Corinthians 5:4 ESV). Imparted righteousness is simply the works that the Holy Spirit tells us to do or not to do. These are good works that the Bride of Jesus should adorn herself with (1 Timothy 2:9-10). In the final analysis, these righteous acts are the fine linen, bright and clean that the saints will wear (Revelation 19:8 ). He who does not have these wedding garments on, will be thrown into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 22:13).

So the question to ask yourself is: Are you in your first birthday dress or your wedding dress?
_________________
© 2006-2015 Caleb S. Motupalli

~Most of our problems will be solved if only we yield our freewill to the Lord's will.~

Last edited by Caleb on Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:50 pm; edited 5 times in total

Pilgrim wrote:

Quote:

Lordship is always taught.

Has it been taught to the extent that it should be? I don't think so.

Here is some Charles G. Finney for you:

"Justification by faith does not mean that faith is accepted as a substitute for personal holiness or that by an arbitrary constitution, faith is imputed to us instead of personal obedience to the law. Some suppose that justification is this, that the necessity of personal holiness is set aside and that God arbitrarily dispenses with the requirement of the law and imputes faith as a substitute. But this is not the way. Faith is accounted for just what it is, and not something else that it is not. Abraham's faith was imputed unto him for righteousness because it was itself an act of righteousness and because it worked by love, and thus produced holiness. Justifying faith is holiness, so far as it goes, and produces holiness of heart and life and is imputed to the believer as holiness, not instead of holiness."

Pilgrim replied:

Quote:

Please help me understand your reason for posting Charles Finney. If you look to the writings of Finney, he rejected imputation and justification by faith alone. If you line yourself up with Finney, you should also know his other doctrinal positions too.

Please address the self-evident truth in the citation.

And you yourself have nicely summed up your pilgrimage and said:

Quote:

Salvation is a process. Justification cannot be without sanctification. They are joined together. You cannot experience one without the other.

And we know from scripture that we must:
"Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification (some translations, holiness) without which no one will see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

We see from the above citation of Finney that faith and holiness cannot be substituted for each other. We need both. And you have admitted, "Justification cannot be without sanctification." And it is obvious that "pursuing sanctification /holiness" (i.e. love/service) is WORK. Therefore the theory of Justification by faith ALONE is false. The church that holds on to this doctrine stands to fall!

Since Finney is only tradition let us put him aside for a moment. I will ask you a simple question:

Is Faith = love ?
_________________
© 2006-2015 Caleb S. Motupalli

~Most of our problems will be solved if only we yield our freewill to the Lord's will.~

Author	Message
Caleb Site Admin Joined: 11 Aug 2006 Posts: 95 Location: India	Perfected in unity!
	You might wonder how will all those of OLD will finally end up being justified if only now we in this time are seeing with a clear vision and not in part. Consider the following verses: "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad" (John 8:56). "By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God" (Heb 11:8-10). "And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect" (Heb 11:39-40). "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you (including Abraham) in Me, and I (including Abraham) in you" (John 14:19-20 targum Caleb). "For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ" (1 Corinthians 12:12). No one can be Justified and become a member in that body without being Just (humble) and having leaned on the finished work of Christ. No one can begin to become Just (righteous) without being Justified through sanctification by grace through faith in Christ. No one can end here on earth, "Justified," without him being Just (righteous--meritorious) himself through entire sanctification (i.e. faithful obedience to the Holy Spirit until he becomes the Chosen/Elect). _________________ © 2006-2015 Caleb S. Motupalli ~Most of our problems will be solved if only we yield our freewill to the Lord's will.~ Last edited by Caleb on Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:09 pm; edited 2 times in total

Author	Message
Caleb Site Admin Joined: 11 Aug 2006 Posts: 95 Location: India	Diaper Righteousness
	The imputed righteousness of Christ was good in so far as it was necessary to wipe away all our sins up until the time we are born again is concerned. The work of belief (John 6:29) in faith that we mustered at that time is only diaper righteousness--it is a righteousness that we cannot boast about. As for the Imputed righteousness of Christ Himself, it is spent as an atonement for wiping away sins previously committed (Romans 3:25). We need imparted righteousness from then on to "further clothe" ourselves so that what is mortal will be swallowed up with life (2 Corinthians 5:4 ESV). Imparted righteousness is simply the works that the Holy Spirit tells us to do or not to do. These are good works that the Bride of Jesus should adorn herself with (1 Timothy 2:9-10). In the final analysis, these righteous acts are the fine linen, bright and clean that the saints will wear (Revelation 19:8 ). He who does not have these wedding garments on, will be thrown into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 22:13). So the question to ask yourself is: Are you in your first birthday dress or your wedding dress? _________________ © 2006-2015 Caleb S. Motupalli ~Most of our problems will be solved if only we yield our freewill to the Lord's will.~ Last edited by Caleb on Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:50 pm; edited 5 times in total

Luther Debunked

Dead works vs. Imparted works

Perfected in unity!

Are we legalists then?

What is really imputed to us?

Imparted Righteousness

Diaper Righteousness

Is Jesus a Savior only?